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Discussion starter · #21 ·
So here are the brackets I ordered from Artec for the rear 4 link of the TJ, the uppers are angled in to triangulate on the top of the Artec truss I already have and the lowers will slightly angle out at 10* to give a little more lateral stability without having a panhard bar in the rear.

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https://artecindustries.3dcartstores.com/Dual-4-link-Bracket-pair_p_253.html

Wasn't sure this was going to work at first thinking that the lower links would end up mounting to far outside on the rear axle and interfere with tires, but looking at it setup in the Dodge, I know where the tire will be and should have ample room behind the backing plate to clear. This should also help keep the rear end centered since it will see a lot of street use.

I'm still working on the front, but thinking that I will go with another Artec lower arm axle mount, but waiting so I can get the correct angle, thinking it will be 10* but want to line things up first and since they aren't on sale, I don't need to rush!

However, I am wanting to do a 3 link up front and that 3rd link for the upper is on sale @ Ballistic....not a fan either, but 20% off will get me to buy a few brackets there. You guys have any input on what angle to go with for the upper? I have never messed with a 3 link before....so I don't know if the upper needs to be angled or straight...thinking either 10* or 0*. Comments....ideas....complaints??????

This for frame side passenger????

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http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Dual-frame-link-mount_p_1164.html

These for axle side?????

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http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Link-bracket-coil-spring-shock-mount-combo_p_1461.html


Again I'm concerned that the lower axle mount will need to be angled in to get to the more narrow frame, but maybe I order a set for 3" wide joints to give room for angle if need be????
 
swirvin21 said:
I was an ordnance tech working on F-18s in Corps. I was an Operational level tech, which means I dealt directly with the aircraft and munitions immediately prior to installation, while Intermediate level techs actually deal with building or repairing munitions or the tools used to install them. However, we were also responsible for trouble-shooting all ordnance related systems on the F-18 itself, resulting in quite a bit of mechanical and electrical knowledge being passed on. Unfortunately, that knowledge doesn't really translate into many civilian applications, but we also spent a large amount of time with the HMMV as they broke down regularly while we hauled explosives or armed/disarmed aircraft on the runway. So combine that with my experience as a shop foreman for a tiny Jeep shop in Dallas, TX year s ago and I'm pretty well rounded. I was also an insurance adjuster which involves a lot of training on vehicles in every category.

Despite my ability to use big words with suspension designs, I am in no way an expert. The 4 link calculator still confuses me, so don't think I don't get confused when people talk about anti-squat and other terms. Reading Billavista's suspension training on Pirate as well as other threads on the subject will help though.

Do simplify what I'm doing, think about the different types of link suspension setups:
-3 link ( 2 lower links and 1 upper link) and panhard bar (track bar)
-4 links: ( 2 lower links and 2 upper link) can be with or without panhard depending on setup

1) parallel 4 link= both upper and lower parallel with panhard: think stock 2nd gen Dodge Ram
2) upper parallel, lower triangulated= uppers are parallel to each other, lower are triangulated from wide on the axle to narrow on the frame "V" design: this is common on Rockwell axled trucks
3) upper triangulated, lower parallel= opposite of above, with uppers triangulated from narrow on axle to wide on frame "/\": fairly common setup in the rear of rigs
4) dual triangulated= both upper and lower are triangulated in above #2 and #3, looks like an "X" from above: this is common in rears and only with full hydro on fronts (BUGGY suspension)
5) Almost dual triangulated= which is where the uppers are triangulated and the lowers are only slightly triangulated 10-20*: this is common in rear, not much in front

Now those are just designs, you still need to take into account what the degrees are of each triangulated. If it's not triangulated enough, you need a panhard bar to keep the axle centered. If you triangulate incorrectly, you get binding.

In the long run, unless you are a competition guy, you base your suspension off of how easily it can be packaged. In my case, I can do a upper triangulated and lowers slightly triangulated because I will be running full width axle in the rear. Dual triangulated can be argued as being better, but building a crossmember so that the lowers can be mounted in the center under the t-case output is harder. Same situation in the front, hard to fit with exhaust and everything else.

I'm going to have to cut this short because I gotta run, but feel free to ask away. I like answering these questions because people WILL correct me if I say something wrong (hopefully :tongue: ) and it reinforces my theories on how I want to set this up. Gotta run, will answer more soon as I've ordered a few parts..... :bigthumb:
Wow! That was above and beyond anything I expected. I appreciate your time and effort, Thanks a lot!!
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
No problem, I've always believed these forums are supposed to be for sharing and learning, not bragging like what seems to happen on the P-rat ship.... I'm still learning myself, so I need people to post up and tell me when I'm wrong or I end up screwing myself. So, keep asking and I'll try to answer.

After thinking it over last night, I decided not to order any frame side brackets as I really can't plan the front far enough in advance to make sure they work. Typically the axle side stuff only goes on one or two ways, so not much to change or modify. However, the frame side is based on how the axle side brackets are setup and link length, etc. I just can't plan that with any certainty. So, we'll be setting up the axle with the brackets I showed above, tacking them on and then working on what to order after I have a rough mock-up.

The rear is much more simple as the axle brackets are easy to position pretty much anywhere. No knuckles, exhaust, steering and the diff is centered, so the best plan of action in my opinion is to mount the frame side and then move and modify the axle side brackets to work after mock-up. Make sense?

I'd still like to think that I can afford the $800 gas tank for a stretch in the future, but we'll have to see. So that is another thing I can't really plan for as of now.

I have to do the Dodge before all of this I'm afraid. Have to get the axles out first!! So, I'm hoping to do the rear first and have it built with the appropriate lockers and gears, then set up the front axle suspension-wise. Only after I have the old axles in the Jeep will I save up to re-gear and lock the front. Unfortunately that will limit wheeling with it, but I need to focus on getting both drivable BEFORE this summer.....
 
I cant beleive this thing isnt done yet....:tongue:

I give you props, so many projects going at once and you still get things done....

Rick
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
You say that Rick, but I feel like nothing has gotten done. I'm starting to feel the pressure of getting the house on the market. Wondering if my agent is going to think having a Jeep project in the garage is a negative...

Managed to pick up a TeraLow 4:1 NP231 w/ SYE and a rear CV driveshaft for an awesome price. Will try and sell my stock NP231 to fund a better super short SYE instead of this hack n' tap one, but overall still a great buy.

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Starting to fab up some basic conversion brackets to covert the stock floor brackets to my MasterCraft sliders, this will allow me to keep the back seat access as the seat will still flip forward. Going to use the stock seatbelts until I figure out a cage and whatnot.

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Unfortunately that has been all of the progress so far....pretty slow. Trying to finish up some other stuff and can't work on any axle swaps until I get the axles out of the Black Ram.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Finally had a nice enough day to pull the Jeep out of the garage and actually CLEAN her! I shoveled...yes, shoveled out at least 30 lbs of dirt, rock, sand, pieces of wood and random pieces. I hosed out the frame rails and the fuel tank skid for probably 1/2 the time alone. But it's done now and she looks great! I went ahead and cleaned up a few spots where there was a little surface rust and one almost bad spot in the passenger floor pan, but everywhere else is pretty clean.









I've finally figured out most of the plan on body upgrades:
-Poison Spyder TJ DeFender™ XC (High-Line) - 3" Tapered Flares (Steel)
http://shop.poisonspyder.com/TJ-DeFender-XC-3-Tapered-Flares-Steel-p/14-02-093.htm

-TNT HyLine "Zyros" for TJ
http://www.tntcustoms.com/jeep_wrangler_TJ/Hyline_zyros_corner_armor.aspx

-TJ Boatsides from THE ONE FABRICATION
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/body-armor/1107939-tj-boatside-rocker-kit.html


Haven't decided 100% on the rear fuel tank. Considering the Genright, but also found this PureJeep extended stretch tank that is a little cheaper:
http://shop.savvyoffroad.com/product.sc?productId=101&categoryId=4


The next thing would be a good cage. There are a ton of options here, but I'm very interested in these TMR Cage Pillars as they lower the windshield cross bar farther than the others I've looked at.
http://www.tmrcustoms.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=489


That's pretty much where I stand right now. A few other small things like rear coil locating buckets from either Genright or Rokmen are on my list as well. That's pretty much it for now. Small steps, but big plans as usual....
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
Haven't touched this for awhile....finally got some stuff done this past week+. She DRIVES!!! Axles are installed (except for the rear trackbar axle side bolt...which is PISSING me off!!! Anyways...no brakes, but I drove around on some roller tires and wheels I got using the parking brake to stop while in 4WD. Missing a rear u-bolt for the rear driveshaft so had to run 4wd. I will post pics tomorrow, but it was nice to have this actually looking like a Jeep again!
 
Hmm project goes good... but your jeep also need a complete detailing... because i see the interior which is very dirty and have spots... and do you have any idea when you will complete this project? Because i wanna see this beast in action again. Good luck, you done good work.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
sold.....had to say bye bye. I will buy a tub/chassis someday when my daughter can hold a wrench!
 
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