Off Road Vehicles banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys,

Sorry to sound so pissy yesterday on that thread... Got into work and we didn't have water, which meant no coffee, which meant I was a royal ass until I had my morning dose of caffiene (I'm not a nice driver in the mornings, either)...

I didn't mean to get quite that pissed off at you guys.

<hb>

Actually, I'd like to work with you guys on sopmething like this.

The point I was trying to make is that the Rams seem to use some rather dodge-specific shock mounts. This I think we can fix.

If we can get a measurement of the fully compressed length of a spring and a fully extended spring, we can determine the longest shock we can run.

Basically that will dictate the maximum travel and some of the maximum compressed length of the shock.

If we use shocks that have an inch or two more travel, we can maximize suspension travel (with respect to the shock, still issues with the 4-link binding itself up).

We can also come up for a plan for a modified shock tower that allows us to run longer shocks (compressed and extended), that use mroe friendly mounting systems, instead of dodge's odd-ball mounts.

It may involve both a part at the top and bottom of the shock, but I think we can come up with something doable.

I don't have access to a machine-shop, or welder or anythign like that (wish I did, I'd have started work on this already).

However, I can help with the design, as I have a few ideas floating around in my head.

Rancho has several VERY long travel shocks (14" or so), and if we wanted to look at King Shocks, which while they run $100 each or more, are definitely THE WAY to go for extreme-length shocks, we could come up with something.

Any takers?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,227 Posts
These are what we need, or something similar.
http://www.jksmfg.com/Shock_Conversions.htm



They convert the stud style to EB1 ends. Problem is Rams use EB2 on the bottom. According to the Rancho spec sheets, since the EB2 code only considers the only "ring" width and diameter, the EB1 should be fine. The actual bushing diameter and width would be an "industry standard" size I wouls assume. Thus the RS9008 should be awesome.

It has 2" shorter compressed length for more stuff ( about 1" more stuff since the conversion is about 1" tall) and and extended length of 27.75" for a total of 14.125" (plus the 1" drop the conversion gives) of travel compared to the 9-10" of travel in most 3" lift shocks.

That might even be enough to unseat the coils... Limiting straps anyone?
_________________
I'm not prejudice... I hate everybody
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Actually, I was thinking more like extending the towers and running some LONG shocks... :):

Interesting numbers off my truck just now:

I have approx 5-6" of compression left on each shock, allowing for up to 9" of droop on the dual shock, and 3" of droop in the OEM location.

Mix that with my current HD coils, and it's no wonder that I get no front flex, I bet I'm fully extended the OEM location shock.

That conversion would get me another inch or two of droop, without sacrificing much in compression, as the dual-shock has almost an inch less compression to go than the oem location shock.

Actually with a bushing to reduce the holes in the axle from the EB2 to the EB1 (5/8 instead of 3/4 dia, and a 1/4" narrower bushing), so a pair of t-bushings with a 5/8 ID, a 1/8" flange, and a 3/4" OD would fit perfect (and cost CHEAP, will look at the hardware store tonight)....

Then the RS9008s could be run in both positions, with about 1" less compressed length, and an extra 6" of droop...

If the 4-link would allow it, you could disengage the coil with ease with that much droop, especially for me, my coils are only 1-2" longer than a stock coil, but give me 3" more height...

I'd rather run some sort of spring keeper...

OR, if we went REALLY nuts, I bet we could switch to a mounting plate with EB1 holes, and run coil-overs.... :):

Sorry, just been to King Shocks web-site and drooling...

I've asked for specs/prices on shocks for the ram, in 10, 12, 14, and 16" travel lengths.

Would definitely require shock-tower modifications, though, just for the mounting and for the extra length... the 14" travel shock (same as RS9008) is 24" long compressed...

Wait, Rancho's pages are wrong...

RS9008:

compressed: 13.625"
extended: 27.750"
travel: 14.125

Numbers add up, but don't make sense.

I called, and the RS9008 REAL specs are:

compressed: 13.625"
extended: 21.750"
travel: 8.125"

Which means I have maybe 6" total suspension travel available in the front...

However, the RS9005 would give 7" more droop, but take away 3" of compression, IF we can even fully compress the shocks we have (I know I can't), and bumpstops can fix that problem...

Actually, if we used bushings to run a EB1 lower mount, then we could run the RS9234, with 11" of travel, and lose only 3" of comressed length, with the stock shock-tower.

Rancho also has Long Travel shocks out now:
http://www.gorancho.com/products/long_travel.stm

20-21" compressed, 34-36" extended, 14-15" of travel

Just need to now figure out how compressed we actually can get the shocks before hitting the bump-stops, and if taller bumpstops and a reduced compression distance would be worth the extra droop...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,227 Posts
Do we know what the lower bolt size is and if we can get sleeves to fit into the EB1 bushings? That would be easiest. The Ramcho notes was that they have hardware to drop the sleeve dia. to 9/16 and 1/2" from the 5/8" they use standard. Is the Ram lower bolt 5/8" dia? If so, problem solved right?

As for compression, when I ramped that 30* one the other day, there was almost no gap between the coils on the driver front coil.

The simplest way is to determine compression is to measure the space the bumpstop can travel and add 2" for the max angle the axle may reach when flexed since the shock is outside of the bumpstop. That would probably be close.

Extension is the unloaded coil height less 1" or so to keep the coil seated.

Thus the total travel is the addition of those 2 numbers. Find a shock that has a compressed length shorter than and an extended length longer than that total number. I can not see getting more flex than the travel of a 9012 (13.25") can give.

Problem is the 9012 is a long shock, even compressed. That would require some taller shock mounts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Good point.

I have my stock springs on the ground at home, so I can measure their height. That, plus 1" will give us the max distance between the stock spring buckets. Then add 3" for the lift, and 3-4" for the shock tower, and 1-2" for the low mounting hole of the shock, and we'll have the extended length of the shock (I'd ballpark it at 23-26" or so). And compressed I'd have to measure...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,670 Posts
?????
you can just cut the towers right out of thing, then put a cage around the engine

then run the shocks to the upper engine cage hoops ...

go look at any off road race truck
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,227 Posts
Problem is we are not building a race turck. Only need to be able to fit longer shocks.... Something simple is in order.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The shock towers are just held on by 3 bolts, so those are easily gotten-to, replaced.

Removing the spring buckets would be a whole other matter, and I'd ONLY even THINK of doing that if I had already fabbed up a coil-over mouting setup that was beefy as hell.

Hmmm. Yeah, I can visualize that, but that can wait a LONG while. :):
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,835 Posts
Super lift 5" kit came with a flat plate for the shock so they didn't have to supply a longer shock. I ended up tossing it due to bottoming out on my longer rs 9000. Don't remember the numbers but will try to see if I can rub the dirt away. I have 8" lift in front and I get tons of droop. Limiting factor is my track bar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Downside to the plates, as you found out, is that you need to run a shorter shock (not what we're trying to do), or run much taller bumpstops (limiting compression).

I'd like to run something like those stud to eb1 converters... have to think about that...

Also, interesting note...

With teh stock lower control arms (16"?) IF you achieve 12" of flex, 4" compression, and 8" droop, you'll be shifting the axle back 2" at full droop, with like a 10* angle back on the shocks (guessing at 26")... That's a LOT.

To compare against a long-arm kit (Cepek 6" or SkyJacker 7"), which easily run 36" long lower control arms, we're talking 1/2" movement front/back.. The axle has to drop 12" to get the same amount of travel (2") backwards in the wheel-well...

drool...

I think that kit will flex quite a bit, depending on how the upper-control arm does...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,227 Posts
On 2002-05-01 22:34, Badboy4453 wrote:
Will you guys explain to me what droop is? Thanks.

Nick.

That is the drop of the suspension as you flex
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,237 Posts
On 2002-05-01 19:55, woody wrote:
To compare against a long-arm kit (Cepek 6" or SkyJacker 7"), which easily run 36" long lower control arms, we're talking 1/2" movement front/back.. The axle has to drop 12" to get the same amount of travel (2") backwards in the wheel-well...

just an FYI... the cepek 6" kit, comes with 48" upper AND lower arms. i dont know the length on the skyjacker, but i know the upper arent long like the lower.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
<Boogle>

48"?? upper and lower?? damn....

The skyjacker looks to be similar to that for the lower, but the upper looks like it is essentially the stock lower.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,237 Posts
ive got pics of a truck that i found around my house with the lift on it. check them out if you want.
<!-- BBCode u1 Start -->http://www.dryice.net/wmif/cepek_lift" TARGET="_blank<!-- BBCode u1 End -->
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,586 Posts
on pic number xxxx327, there is somthing sovering the top of the headers? Is it to deflect heat away from the motor?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok, dug up this image from a post that Hawii made earlier, in the original Skyjacker 7" thread:



And here's the skyjacker 7" kit:



Seems to me the Dick Cepek arms are better laid out, but the Skyjacker arms are stronger (if they need to be). Other interesting things to note is that that those coil-overs are fully compressed in the skyjacker photo, or nearly so. Looks like they are the 10 or 12" stroke.

Interesting idea: What about running the cepek control arm setup, a custom steering setup, and custom mounts for coil-overs set for 7-8" of lift?

Unfortunately for me, in order to run either the skyjacker or the cepek lifts, I have to cut one or both of the support arms for the sliders off, and figure out new mounting for them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,237 Posts
big, the heat shield you see is above the exhast manifold. thats the factory one. hes got a body lift also.

the arms on the cepek are surprisingly large. they look pretty beefy in person. i was planning on going with the entire kit at first, then going to either airbags and king shocks, or just king coilovers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hawaii,

Is the Evap canister relocated?

I'm amazed at those photos you took... DAMN...

THAT's a LIFT.

I now see why Skyjacker went with the shorter upper arms, it was clearancing the frame. And are the gusseted body mounts strong enough after they've been cut out like that?

And are those cut-outs part of the standard kit?

I must say that I'm REALLY impressed.

How much for the kit minus shocks? or minus shocks and front springs?

<sigh>

Need more money!! :):

Now to just figure out how to clear my rock sliders with those front 4-links involved...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The steering setup on that truck is amazing...

Doesn't look like it would be compatible with a DT bar, though. However, with some work, a compromise might be had.

I definitely like to relocation of the steering stabilizer up out of the way like that.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top