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408 Stroker vs. V10 swap
08-05-2009, 04:24 PM
Post: #1
 
Time to make a decision. My plenum gasket is toast and before I start the repair I want to see what ya'll think will best suit my uses.

Stroke the 360 to 408, upgrade the current 360 w/ basic bolt on parts and heads, or full out swap?

Currently: 1998 2500 stock motor, rebuilt trans + shift kit only (HD tow package), upgraded axles, 4.88s & ARBs

What I use it for: I tow my RV 8K, but want to have capability to 10-12K. No daily driver, toy only. Use for search and rescue, moderate wheeling, mainly trail type/rocks, maybe some minor mud, no bogs.

Reason I'm asking before the plenum is I want the Edelbrock Airgap FI. No point in spending the coin if a V10 or diesel would be better. V10 or 12/24V Cummins should swap in without any major fabrication.

Stroking the 360 gives power(costly power), but leaves me with the 46RE. Bang Head Cummins requires everything changed, but no weak points, just extra weight. Though it makes my 35s w/ 4.88s overkill. V10 is middle ground in my opinion, unless I score a Viper motor and get the best of both.

I know everyone has an opinion on this one. Keep in mind cost, reliability and replacement parts though. I hear the V10 is tough to score parts.




Ooh Rah Devils!
Dueling Dodges Rams
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad 4x4 V10-White DT Trac bar, Borg box & shaft, DOR steering brace, headers, FIPK, Road Armor Front/Rear bumpers...so far
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad 4x4 Sport V8-Black
2.5" Skyjacker, 2" BL, Alum Radiator, EMS hub conversion, dual ARBs, 35 spline alloys FR/R, 4.88s, Magnaflow, Borgeson shaft, 37" BFG Bajas on 24 bolt H1s, custom bumpers , bedlined rockers & bed
1999 Jeep TJ, Project "Recycled Ram"
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08-05-2009, 07:21 PM
Post: #2
 
Its depends on how much money you want to spend, there is a huge cost difference between stroking you're current 360 and just putting some bolt on's on it.




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ZacD- \"i put a glasspack on my \'97 5.9 powered ram and my parents make me wear a chastity belt now.\"

1998 Dodge Ram 1500 d60/d70 locked, 39.5iroks, 5:13\'s

1986 c-j7 HP44/14BFF locked, 35\'s, 4:88, chevy 350 w/ R4-700 and NP208 t-case
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08-05-2009, 08:05 PM
Post: #3
 
I'm really just trying to gauge cost to benefit at this point. I know I can rebuilt my 360 myself for about $2000-3000 and get alot of extra oommph, but I'm not sure it will get me what I want for towing performance. I'd really like to be able to pull 8-10K up hills without having to speed up to 75 on the preceeding downhill in over to avoid dropping below 50. I'm not expecting too speed up on the uphills, but with 8K I shouldn't be dropping down to 50. I'm worried I'll spend the money to upgrade the 360 only to be disappointed and have to stroke or swap to be satisfied. I think the other part is wanting to get rid of the 46RE and bump up to a 47, just like everyone on this site. I use more and more 47 parts on each rebuild, but I just can't justify dropping $3000 on a tranny upgrade to one of the super kits, when I could just swap the whole drivetrain of a Cummins 2nd gen.

If I plan a 360 rebuild right. I can replace the intake, heads, headers, TB and other bolt ons with parts suitable to a stroker. And then do the crank, cam and pistons on the final push. But we're still talking $5000.

I don't hear a lot of people towing on their stroker, so part of me just wants to swap in a Cummins drivetrain and be done with it. I don't hear a lot of negatives to a Cummins swap. Could get a salvage truck for $2000-4000 and switch it all over the winter.




Ooh Rah Devils!
Dueling Dodges Rams
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad 4x4 V10-White DT Trac bar, Borg box & shaft, DOR steering brace, headers, FIPK, Road Armor Front/Rear bumpers...so far
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad 4x4 Sport V8-Black
2.5" Skyjacker, 2" BL, Alum Radiator, EMS hub conversion, dual ARBs, 35 spline alloys FR/R, 4.88s, Magnaflow, Borgeson shaft, 37" BFG Bajas on 24 bolt H1s, custom bumpers , bedlined rockers & bed
1999 Jeep TJ, Project "Recycled Ram"
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08-05-2009, 08:25 PM
Post: #4
 
If your really wanting to be able to have that good of towing capabilities then i think you would only be satisfied with a cummins.




Tanner

my build page

ZacD- \"i put a glasspack on my \'97 5.9 powered ram and my parents make me wear a chastity belt now.\"

1998 Dodge Ram 1500 d60/d70 locked, 39.5iroks, 5:13\'s

1986 c-j7 HP44/14BFF locked, 35\'s, 4:88, chevy 350 w/ R4-700 and NP208 t-case
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08-06-2009, 04:42 PM
Post: #5
 
Part of me was really hoping that someone would tell me they tow that much with their 360 with a few upgrades and at least feel comfortable on the drive Blue Cry




Ooh Rah Devils!
Dueling Dodges Rams
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad 4x4 V10-White DT Trac bar, Borg box & shaft, DOR steering brace, headers, FIPK, Road Armor Front/Rear bumpers...so far
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad 4x4 Sport V8-Black
2.5" Skyjacker, 2" BL, Alum Radiator, EMS hub conversion, dual ARBs, 35 spline alloys FR/R, 4.88s, Magnaflow, Borgeson shaft, 37" BFG Bajas on 24 bolt H1s, custom bumpers , bedlined rockers & bed
1999 Jeep TJ, Project "Recycled Ram"
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08-07-2009, 12:25 PM
Post: #6
 
Cummins = built for towing
360 = i wanted a big loud cool lookin truck but cant tow much.




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08-09-2009, 07:57 AM
Post: #7
 
I tow my RV at most 4-6 times per year no more than 500-1000 round trip. I've been towing with a badly blown plenum, so my performance is even lower than normal. I will be purchasing or building a tow rig in the next 4-6 years, because I cannot run a gooseneck or 5th wheel on a lifted truck and I will be towing heavy. Right now I'm close to the top @ 3" and 35" tires. So after talking with some folks here I think a 408 is the best choice.

The plan is to go ahead and build the upper portion now, save up an do the block and stroker work next year. Here's what I want to start. Plan on ordering some through Hughes and look around for deals. I'm trying to buy stuff that will support and complement the 408.

Iron Ram Heads w/ Harland Sharp 1.7 roller rockers
Edelbrock Air Gap FI - Hughes
try to find some tri-y or more torque headers
52mm Throttle body (I know this is good for towing on the 360, but is it too small for a 408???)
Electric fans- I need a recommendation on this one!

Want to have the upper end done by Halloween or Thanksgiving.




Ooh Rah Devils!
Dueling Dodges Rams
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad 4x4 V10-White DT Trac bar, Borg box & shaft, DOR steering brace, headers, FIPK, Road Armor Front/Rear bumpers...so far
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad 4x4 Sport V8-Black
2.5" Skyjacker, 2" BL, Alum Radiator, EMS hub conversion, dual ARBs, 35 spline alloys FR/R, 4.88s, Magnaflow, Borgeson shaft, 37" BFG Bajas on 24 bolt H1s, custom bumpers , bedlined rockers & bed
1999 Jeep TJ, Project "Recycled Ram"
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08-18-2009, 06:23 AM
Post: #8
 
Here are some numbers for you, I just had my engine stroked to 408. 485#ft at 3800 rpm, and 410hp at 5000 rpm.

This engine was built with forged crank, rods, and 9:1 cr pistons, a Hughes Main Stud girdle, Hughes Super Prepped heads, Hughes cam HER1828AL (0.544" lift, 218 degrees duration intake / 228 degrees duration exhaust),and Harland Sharp 1:6 roller rockers. It was run on the dyno with an Edelbrock AirGap manifold and a Holley 750. Once the engine goes in the truck, it will have the Hughes FI AirGap manifold and 24# injectors. This will all be pulled together by an SCT tuner.

This engine was built mostly for trail riding, some mud, and hills, as well as Grin factor when driving for general run around. While the truck is now more toy than anything, I still use it for general purposes. The power band is relatively low, right where I wanted it. I doubt it will ever see 6000 rpm.

I'm guessing that something similar may work for you, but it wasn't cheap. I'm thinking converting your truck to a Cummins wouldn't be cheap, either.

Good luck with it.
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08-18-2009, 03:44 PM
Post: #9
 
Sounds similar to what I wanted to do, I like a lot of the Hughes stuff and have heard a lot of good things about them, a few bad, but only a few. Sounds like they provided most of the parts, who did the block work? Local or sent out to Hughes or someone else? I think Hughes is way expensive for their short block, almost $4K, using your core. I've found other short blocks for $2100 cast crank.

Since you're not planning on pushing high revs, was the forged crank really necessary? And the heads are the iron RT's with the Hughes Super Prep package, not the alums, right? I'm assuming you put 1.6 RR on the heads and a larger TB (52 or 55). Any other upgrades? Rough cost of the 408??

KRC has a deal on the SCT tuner right now. $399. http://www.krcperformance.com/krc/index....4&Itemid=2




Ooh Rah Devils!
Dueling Dodges Rams
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad 4x4 V10-White DT Trac bar, Borg box & shaft, DOR steering brace, headers, FIPK, Road Armor Front/Rear bumpers...so far
1998 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad 4x4 Sport V8-Black
2.5" Skyjacker, 2" BL, Alum Radiator, EMS hub conversion, dual ARBs, 35 spline alloys FR/R, 4.88s, Magnaflow, Borgeson shaft, 37" BFG Bajas on 24 bolt H1s, custom bumpers , bedlined rockers & bed
1999 Jeep TJ, Project "Recycled Ram"
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08-18-2009, 04:34 PM
Post: #10
 
V10 stock numbers: 300 hp, 450 ft.lbs of torque. Stock. 400 ft.lbs of torque at an idle.

Spend about $500 on it and those numbers go way up. Plus you have a stock motor, low compression, arguably the best torque curve of any truck motor ever, and it's reliable as hell.

A diesel is good for towing but sucks for everything else. A V10 can pull whatever you want it to pull and still be a great daily driver without all of the possible issues that come with a diesel. High compression and a turbocharger do not equal reliability. Like you said, the gears you have won't go with a diesel anyway.

Or you could spend 3 to 5 grand on a V8 and still not have as much power as I have in my stock V10.

I would get a truck V10, not a Viper V10, if you want to tow with the truck. That is what the "Ram Tough" V10 was made to do. The Viper V10 is a great motor but puts way more emphasis on going fast, even though the 500 ft.lbs of torque would make you think otherwise.

I see V10 motor and transmission combos on Ebay from time to time. Finding a 47RE is pretty easy anyway so just keep your eyes out for a V10 motor (the newer, the better, 94 models had some issues with heads cracking but it was only a problem in those early models) and just buy a transmission for it when you can. Then you've already got the 241 transfer case and the axles so you would be set.




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2001.5 Dodge Ram 2500 V10, 8" DOR long arm suspension with 41" Iroks, coilovers front and rear, rear 4 link, Rockwell axles in progress

2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon, DOR 6" long arm suspension with 37" Toyo MT tires, steel bumpers, factory winch and lockers

2014 Ram 2500 6.7 CTD, DOR 3" suspension system with SAW 2.5" remote resi shocks and 2.5" air bumps front and rear, 37" Toyo MT tires on Method wheels

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